tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post8185753443364922897..comments2023-06-10T20:22:01.348+08:00Comments on The Society of Honor by Joe America: A Philippine Ethical Value: Subservience The Society of Honorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-59384199502862696872012-10-31T05:31:59.465+08:002012-10-31T05:31:59.465+08:00A hot time in Gonzaga, 2013. The Mayor certainly s...A hot time in Gonzaga, 2013. The Mayor certainly succeeded in launching her to fame and resources. Had he trucked over to her place with a plate of spaghetti instead of a libel suit, maybe his job would not be at risk.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-23823815658604400762012-10-31T05:29:51.555+08:002012-10-31T05:29:51.555+08:00Yes. I'm surprised there have been no preceden...Yes. I'm surprised there have been no precedents, and also that the Mayor decided to make one. It will be an important discussion. It seems to me better law to expand the RPC definition of libel sources than tack it onto the Cybercrime Law. But I'm just a marketing guy . . .The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-18055836478960582362012-10-31T05:24:28.179+08:002012-10-31T05:24:28.179+08:00baycas, thanks. So either GabbyD or I could go the...baycas, thanks. So either GabbyD or I could go there and find out if his comment was offered up, or a response to a question. Either way, that this case is "presidential level" means something.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-84573284486235568932012-10-30T23:07:27.269+08:002012-10-30T23:07:27.269+08:00Esperlita "PERLING" Serrano Garcia is th...Esperlita "PERLING" Serrano Garcia is the Liberal Party mayoral candidate in Gonzaga, Cagayan.<br /><br />Her lone opponent is the incumbent mayor, Carlito "JUN" Fidel Pentecostes, Jr. From the UNA party.<br /><br />Esperlita versus Carlito come May 13, 2013.<br /><br />baycashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051100094941299606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-68300491785171680542012-10-30T22:34:08.814+08:002012-10-30T22:34:08.814+08:00Although some lawyers believe that online libel is...Although some lawyers believe that online libel is covered by the RPC, I think there is still no case t prove it is so. This will probably be threshed out in the SC oral arguments early next year.baycashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051100094941299606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-16391350822592802052012-10-30T22:26:00.771+08:002012-10-30T22:26:00.771+08:00Transcript of the press briefing can be read in th...Transcript of the press briefing can be read in the Official Gazette (wwwdotgovdotph).baycashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051100094941299606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-48959159289114672012012-10-30T22:24:15.199+08:002012-10-30T22:24:15.199+08:00@Joe,
The best web page to read is the transcript...@Joe,<br /><br />The best web page to read is the transcript of the press briefing...<br /><br />Google "for the record: the arrest of esperlita Garcia did not arise from the cybercrime prevention act -- sec. lacierda".<br /><br />baycashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051100094941299606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-1406463113783831712012-10-30T19:21:16.843+08:002012-10-30T19:21:16.843+08:00You certainly brought this one to a beautiful set ...You certainly brought this one to a beautiful set of questions. Is Filipino subervience owed partly to patronage, and a rather sadomasochistic benefit? If I reflect on the class distinctions within the Philippines, I tend to think the masses don't gain much by being outspoken. The main gain from being subservient is staying alive. A pawn, after all, is a pawn. The upper ranges - professionals, entertainers, connected people, and the kings and oligarchs clearly know how to play the subservience and the authoritative game, depending on the circumstance. So, yes, they are sadomasochists. A fine term that I shall freely apply to the Senate, and elsewhere.<br /><br />Point number 6 is really quite earth-shaking. That power in the Philippines has little knowledge or skill behind it. It only has power, and the advantages of trading favors.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-61993301126725608702012-10-30T18:15:01.796+08:002012-10-30T18:15:01.796+08:00Re Coco’s observation that religion is not the mai...Re Coco’s observation that religion is not the main contributor to subservience:<br /><br />1. I think it can be asserted that all peoples - and indeed animals - are subservient to power.<br /><br />2. Let’s say we use three grade levels to rank countries in their subservient attitude to power: respect, cringe and grovel.<br /><br />2.1. Americans can be said to have respect for power. This is primarily due to the fact that, for any long duration, they have not been under an authoritarian political system, like royalty or dictatorship, or a stratified social system, like a feudal or caste set-up. (The exception would be the confederacy.)<br /><br />2.2. Countries that have been under authoritarian/stratified systems or have been colonized– which would be the majority of all countries – can be said to have cringe or grovel. I know that Aussies have cringe whenever the Queen is not amused.<br /><br />2.3. The Philippines, like most Asian countries and like a non-alpha male gorilla, has grovel. Coco offers the observational proof in the general impression is that the Chinese are more subservient than Europeans.<br /><br />2.4. I put this down to their imperial history and feudal structure. “Tremble and obey”, sayeth the empress.<br /><br />2.5. The same observation applies to the Japanese. At one time, samurais had the right to kill peasants almost at whim.<br /><br />2.6. In these two cultures, the tradition of obeisance, which can be a gesture of respect or grovel, has been in place for centuries. In the Philippines we have the similar tradition in the “mano po” gesture.<br /><br />3. In the light of the foregoing - that subservience is “natural” and “normal” in various and varying degrees and that Asians have cultures of indelible superiority and inferiority- I will concede to Coco that the Pinoy subservience is due, not mostly, but only in part to his unquestioning acceptance of external authority as exemplified by the attitude to the Church. I will also now add two other causes: the colonial experience and the pre-Hispanic social stratification.<br /><br />4. The question remains: Why is the interaction between those in power and the powerless so skewed in the Philippines?<br /><br />5. The part answer provided here is subservience of the grovel kind. But if the answer is not wholly subservience, could it be partly be because of patronage? We allow corruption because we benefit from it? And could it be partly that we are sadomasochistic? We allow abuse because we derive pleasure from it?<br /><br />6. Coco’s other observation that power in the Philippines is gained and maintained by power itself, and not from charisma or knowledge, is generally true. Power once gained, remains. This is evidenced by dynasties. The exceptions would be Corona and possibly Gloria; the Marcoses prove the rule rather than the exception. There may be exceptions in charisma (Vilma Santos?) and in legal knowledge (Recto and Tanada), but I cannot name one in non-legal knowledge. Fame, notoriety or even criminality are other drivers. Pacquiao is in a class by himself – neither charisma nor knowledge but sheer guts.Edgar Loreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13363554010485644899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-64818830003294417132012-10-30T06:37:20.876+08:002012-10-30T06:37:20.876+08:00My turn to say "huh?" So Lacierda was ju...My turn to say "huh?" So Lacierda was just blabbing into the wind? He cited facts and he condemned Anakbayan for riding the horse they rode. He said their view was "wrong".<br /><br />The fact that she was arrested on the RPC is exactly my point. This indicates that the libel provision of the Cybercrime Law is not needed. RPC works just fine. So why was libel inserted into the Cybercrime Law? To intimidate. To impose SUBSERVIENCE on those dastardly opinionated bloggers and Facebook posters.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-77536100734934476952012-10-30T06:25:44.918+08:002012-10-30T06:25:44.918+08:00no. what lacierda said has nothing to do with what...no. what lacierda said has nothing to do with what is pertinent or not.<br /><br />he cited facts. he didnt say "well that was correct!" or "thats wrong!"<br /><br />its a fact that she was arrested based on the RPC. its that simple.GabbyDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-40777241690583485162012-10-30T06:14:43.489+08:002012-10-30T06:14:43.489+08:00"Thre is no position of the president." ..."Thre is no position of the president." So Lacierda was giving a personal opinion that the Cybercrime Law was not the pertinent law in the case? He is not representing the Office of the President?<br /><br />"What's up with all the theorizing?" It is a technique I use generously . . . guessing, theorizing, assuming, postulating, imagining, estimating, deducing . . . aimed at extending from the known to the unknown. To try to figure out "why" as I said at the beginning of the article.<br /><br />The theorizing leads me to believe that subservience is a social value in the Philippines. The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-87145278236627561472012-10-30T00:41:15.758+08:002012-10-30T00:41:15.758+08:00huh? when asked a question, and you know the answe...huh? when asked a question, and you know the answer, why not answer? he knew because the office was following the issue and sought information. <br /><br />there is no position of the president. it was a simple question about the facts of the case.<br /><br />whats up with all theorizing?GabbyDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-20075597460736542922012-10-29T19:34:00.277+08:002012-10-29T19:34:00.277+08:00Ah, yes, indeed. Subserevience and silence are exc...Ah, yes, indeed. Subserevience and silence are excellent partners. It is also true than confidence and competence are partners which go a long way toward diminishing the need for suppression of the speech of others. Evidently, some leaders don't have much of one or the other, or both. Confidence is not the same as bull-headed stubbornness, a topic I'll write about later in the week.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-29403627036168877582012-10-29T18:44:44.625+08:002012-10-29T18:44:44.625+08:00Subservience goes hand in hand with silence. Letti...Subservience goes hand in hand with silence. Letting the genie out of the bottle by allowing true freedom of expression diminishes the cloak of invincibility of the powerful elite.<br /><br />Limiting our cyber freedom relegates us back to the status qou ante<br />where complaints about our affairs of state are discussed with our<br />barbers.<br /><br />amor Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-44502636061691864182012-10-29T16:08:32.063+08:002012-10-29T16:08:32.063+08:00Yes, that's true. I think the drive to transpa...Yes, that's true. I think the drive to transparency as reflected in wide release of SALN's and passage of the Freedom of Information Act are critically important to prevent the powers that be from shrinking once again behind the screens of secrect motives and means. And the 2016 election is crucially important in carrying forward with open governance.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-62796759872350701712012-10-29T15:13:17.517+08:002012-10-29T15:13:17.517+08:00That's what power does, they say. Hubris it...That's what power does, they say. Hubris it's called. Well, GMA can make any successor paranoid. It's a good thing we have the web we know better than to go with the charade. Ten year's ago we won't ever know this shit.<br /><br />DocBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-91066245641230812442012-10-29T14:54:24.883+08:002012-10-29T14:54:24.883+08:00Yes, it is . . . what, a conundrum? . . . that th...Yes, it is . . . what, a conundrum? . . . that the most popular president in recent times FEELS under attack. He does not FEEL the love!The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-21684805686890992522012-10-29T14:52:56.653+08:002012-10-29T14:52:56.653+08:00Interesting elaboration. It fits with what I perce...Interesting elaboration. It fits with what I perceive is almost a masterful, elegant reading of power in virtually every Filipino dialogue, and striving to enhance one's own. I suppose at some point the reading becomes almost intuitive, and therefore efficient at ordering who is driving the bus . . . or decision making. But not necessarily efficient at problem solving.<br /><br />Your last paragraph is worth a blog on its own. Or a Doctoral thesis. Finding sanity in a dense environment by ordering the heirarchy of power.<br /><br />Thanks for stretching my brain a bunch on that!The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-54500790083949648542012-10-29T14:42:30.262+08:002012-10-29T14:42:30.262+08:00If anything, what the Malacañang is showing is par...If anything, what the Malacañang is showing is paranoia, a siege mentality. These bright boys, including Pnoy himself, have been weighed ( in the FOI, Anti-cybercrime bill) and found wanting. Tinimbang ngunit kulang. You're right, JoeAm, they just don't get it. As the writer Murakami in 1Q84 would say, " You can't understand without explanation, you can't understand with explanation."<br /><br />DocBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-40760474059902030222012-10-29T14:21:52.398+08:002012-10-29T14:21:52.398+08:00I fully agree with your subservience assessment, o...I fully agree with your subservience assessment, one can’t understand the Philippines without understanding this. But notice that it needs two to tango. Each Filipino knows exactly when to expect subservience from someone too. I once saw a 10 year old girl requesting a tricycle driver to make 2 u-turns to pick her up, she refused to walk 10 meter. Here the picking order is clear for all in every situation.<br /><br />Power in the Philippines is exclusively position power, power out of charisma or out of knowledge are irrelevant. This makes it more straightforward to assess your position and your required attitude. It makes society more relaxed, easier to be kind, but at the cost of many missed opportunities. In the US position power is less important, charisma and knowledge are considered more important, as a result you constantly have to fight for your picking order, resulting in a waste of a lot of energy. <br /><br />I do not believe that religion is the main contributor to this attitude of subservience, I think that it is more an Asian way of showing respect and organizing interactions. Compare European Catholics with Confucian Chinese. I think it has to do with density too, the closer you live together the better you have to organize interactions to prevent your brain from overheating while selecting an appropriate response.<br />Coconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-74792751402729998862012-10-29T14:13:52.989+08:002012-10-29T14:13:52.989+08:00Ah, I see your point now. I don't know. If he ...Ah, I see your point now. I don't know. If he was simply asked a question, he would, I think, refrain from answering, unless he knew the President's view. He speaks for the President, after all, and ought not be putting his own words into the President's mouth. He spoke with certainty, as if it had been discussed and thought about and resolved as to "position". But you are right. I presumed he was speaking on behalf of the President. And I obviously don't know who he spoke with before making his statement.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-1167961705271182412012-10-29T13:12:34.714+08:002012-10-29T13:12:34.714+08:00so he's involved because... of lacierda? wait,...so he's involved because... of lacierda? wait, did lacierda issue a statement?<br /><br />or did he answer an question at a presscon.<br /><br />there's a difference.GabbyDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-60519887043850815242012-10-29T12:57:37.286+08:002012-10-29T12:57:37.286+08:00I cast my vote for definition 2. In all humility, ...I cast my vote for definition 2. In all humility, I do that. Even though I must say the sentence impressed me when it rolled off the keyboard.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4855856123871700301.post-20373400706344728582012-10-29T12:55:26.366+08:002012-10-29T12:55:26.366+08:00Where did I say he was involved in the arrest? He ...Where did I say he was involved in the arrest? He is involved in the case. The President has his spokesman issuing a statement justifying an arrest done by his Department of Justice and stating it does not pertain to the Cybercrime Law. The buck has flown quickly to the President's office.<br /><br />Lacierda gave an answer that aggravated an already aggravating situation. Please refer to the link I provided DocB, above.The Society of Honorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02536906267332687130noreply@blogger.com